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Posted: Oct 15th, 2003 at 08:43 am
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OK, It looks like the illustrious webmaster has added our new group, now we just need to setup some boundaries for character creations. I know that in previous messages we have been ballparking costs. I think if we can set down some standards, maybe try to apply them to existing special characters in the codexes and see how the points pan out we should be fine.
Basically I see our individualized character creations in general costing more than the normal piece would, similar to the VDR rules in which if the create an existing vehicle it would cost more also. Benefits would of course be individuality, and the ability to gain/lose experience through game play (something currently not allowed for necrons).
I think a good start would be for those that posted suggestions/ideas in the past in other areas to report here for discussion and agreement.
This may even be something that once we as a group can define everything we can send over to the guys at GW for possible blessing. (Maybe)
What do you guys all think?
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Posted: Oct 15th, 2003 at 01:13 pm
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Sounds good.
Are we going to have some basic character that we could build on, or have a completly new 'unit'?
What are you opinions on the Aftermath rules?
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 Behold the tap dancing Necrons
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Posted: Oct 15th, 2003 at 05:49 pm
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Oct 15th, 2003 at 01:13 pm, wrote:
Sounds good.
Are we going to have some basic character that we could build on, or have a completly new 'unit'?
What are you opinions on the Aftermath rules?
Not having played the Aftermath campaign I am not sure how well those rules worked out. I am interested as it seems that they may have come from another codex, Maybe Space Marines or somethign given that it was a modification of Adeptus Mechanis. Not exactly sure though as I have never played SM nor do I own the codex to see if the original idea came from there.
I do agree that in general the point cost seemed to be low in comparison to what a standard Necron Lord would be, although I understand that the characters were aspiring to be lords so it would only stand to reason in that case. I think we are looking toward rules that are beyond the standard 'Lord'.
I think that if we are working on creating a new chapter approved rule set, it should allow for any army to create a unique special character from it. Maybe we start with the Necron information, but adding options and subsets of items for other armies should be relativly easy once we get a solid base.
I think we need to start with a base unit. minimum stats and point cost. From this we can assign a cost for adding different things such as increased WS, BS, S, T, I. I think leadership could be a category for improvment at cost. Attacks should be limited. starts 1, gets one at an extra cost, maybe up to 2 additional attacks. after that only be adding a close combat weapon would more be made available.
I know that the VDR rules indicate base stats as those of the base army. We could also attempt that also, providing a base unit cost that would start the base. say all necrons have BS 4 and WS 4, S 3, T 3, I 3, A 1. Cost for basic unit is 18pts(Necron Warrior). After that have cost added to that for each additional BS or WS, S or T. and Attacks.
Just some ideas. I know I am rambling. What do the rest of you all think. As I said I didnt partake in the Aftermath Campaign so the posted rules may work better. Not sure.
-John
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Posted: Oct 15th, 2003 at 08:13 pm
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The Aftermath character creation rules were that you took an HQ from your codex and added wargear and whatnot that didnt exceed 75 points. They each could have a free special rule. I posted rules earlier for a flayed queen, i'll go find those in a little. The Aftermath rules for dueling didnt work out but if we try to make something that can work for every army we can not make something that only works for a certain system. So lets start throwing some ideas out. I have some stuff to do tonight but tomorrow I will devote some time to help out and give more opinions.
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Death to the enemies of our Sacred C'tan
Venerable Lord Zaul
Lord of the Necrons of the Red Skull
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Posted: Oct 15th, 2003 at 09:21 pm
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Here is what I posted for the Flayed Queen.
_____________________________________________
Flayed Queen: 115
WS-4
BS-4
S-5
T-5
A-3
I-5
W-3
LD-10
Save-2+
Special Rules:
Necron, WBB, Terrifying Visage, Ancient Flayed Cloak-The Flayed Queen has seen destruction and death from before the beginning of time. She has killed many during her time and has taken her finest kills and combined their skins into a cloak that strikes fear into her enemies and protects her (Grants and 2+ save and when your opponent rolls their Terrifying check make it at a -2)
You could also have her be accompanied by a special guard of Flayed Ones that have some sort of special rule. Also give the Queen the ability to have a specialist army of Flayed Ones.
_____________________________________________
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Death to the enemies of our Sacred C'tan
Venerable Lord Zaul
Lord of the Necrons of the Red Skull
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Posted: Oct 17th, 2003 at 04:08 pm
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OK, I thought I would try to hurry everything along by attempting to find out how the GW guys do it. Here is the official response I received back from the Rulzboys:
Thanks for the email. There are no character design rules currently. It takes a long time to develop and play-test a character to make sure he/she is flavorful, yet balanced. There is no way to formulate that process, so for now it is left solely to the games development staff.
Nick Staugaitis
Hobby Specialist-Games Workshop USA
6721 Baymeadow Drive
Glen Burnie, MD 21060-6401
USA Mail Order 1-800-394-4263
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I included his contact details in case we wanted it again in the future, but anyways. I stayed up late last night working on trying to break the code that GW uses for a baseline design system (I still don't believe that they just arbitrarily assign a value and play test it till they get it right). > I did however discover some odd things.
Starting with Space Marines the following rules pretty much are standard in the cost:
When upgrading any unit to veteren (1 extra attack and a 9 leadership instead of 8) the cost is 15. I further believe I broke the cost of the attack as 12 and the 9 from 8 leadership as 3 points. This allowed me to create a pretty accurate model (I used it for the Leader, Commander, and Force Commander and ended up with a Leader costing 27, Commander at perfect 45, but the force commander came out to only 48. This is probably due to my not handling the wounds cost right as I couldnt find a good baseline. 
This all sounds awesome, except when I attempted to place these rules on the Dark Eldar (The next amry in the book) nothing came out right, and quite honestly I checked Orks and base on my initial calcs we would get Grethin for -22 points each. I should have argued that when I played Orks as I could have had really huge armies then  . But I digress.
Anyways, I would post the model I figured out partially but I killed it trying to fix it.  I will recreate and post it. I used Excel to handle my math. Expect the new post later tonight.
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Posted: Oct 17th, 2003 at 05:09 pm
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Thanks for that.
BTW, are you using the official 40k rulebook?
If you are, then some of the point costs may differ from the actual codices...
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Behold the tap dancing Necrons
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Posted: Oct 17th, 2003 at 06:29 pm
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Oct 17th, 2003 at 05:09 pm, wrote:
Thanks for that.
BTW, are you using the official 40k rulebook?
If you are, then some of the point costs may differ from the actual codices...
I am using the rulebook, and yes I know that the codexes may differ slightly, howveer I wasnt worried as we are looking for just baselines now.
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Posted: Oct 18th, 2003 at 03:13 am
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Alright.
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Behold the tap dancing Necrons
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First we need rules! - (Read 351 Times)
